Host Kirti Mutatkar continues KBC (Kirti's Book Club) with Pranav Mutatkar to discuss John Williams' "Augustus" - a Pulitzer Prize-winning historical fiction novel about Rome's first emperor told through letters and documents. About the Book Augustus by John Williams follows the life of Octavius (later Emperor Augustus) through an epistolary structure of letters, documents, and correspondence. The novel humanizes the legendary first Roman Emperor, showing his rise to power, personal relationships, and the burden of leadership. Rather than traditional narrative, readers discover Augustus through the perspectives of friends, family, and contemporaries. Key Discussion Points Leadership and performance - How Augustus had to "play" the role of emperor while remaining human underneath Destiny vs. free will - The tension between personal choice and being "crushed in the gears of history" Nobility and legacy - Building for future generations rather than personal gain, exemplified by Roman public works Humanization of greatness - Moving beyond the "Great Man theory" to see historical figures as complex, flawed humans KBC Reading Radar Brain Fizz Factor Both - Fireworks (4/4) Bookshelf Worthy Both - Shelf Resident (3/4) Both hosts enthusiastically recommend "Augustus" for its masterful writing, authentic historical research, and accessibility to non-history readers. The book offers rich themes of leadership, destiny, and human nature that resonate with modern readers. Williams' ability to create distinct character voices through letters makes ancient Rome feel immediate and relatable. --- *Next Episode: "Tom Lake" by Ann Patchett - continuing Season 1 of KBC*
Host Kirti Mutatkar continues KBC (Kirti's Book Club) with Pranav Mutatkar to discuss John Williams' "Augustus" - a Pulitzer Prize-winning historical fiction novel about Rome's first emperor told through letters and documents.
About the Book
Augustus by John Williams follows the life of Octavius (later Emperor Augustus) through an epistolary structure of letters, documents, and correspondence. The novel humanizes the legendary first Roman Emperor, showing his rise to power, personal relationships, and the burden of leadership. Rather than traditional narrative, readers discover Augustus through the perspectives of friends, family, and contemporaries.
Key Discussion Points
KBC Reading Radar
Brain Fizz Factor Both - Fireworks (4/4)
Bookshelf Worthy Both - Shelf Resident (3/4)
Both hosts enthusiastically recommend "Augustus" for its masterful writing, authentic historical research, and accessibility to non-history readers. The book offers rich themes of leadership, destiny, and human nature that resonate with modern readers. Williams' ability to create distinct character voices through letters makes ancient Rome feel immediate and relatable.
*Next Episode: "Tom Lake" by Ann Patchett - continuing Season 1 of KBC*
Kirti Mutatkar: [00:00:00] I am super excited today because this is session two or episode two of season one and I have today with me... Actually, you know what, when we ended our first episode, Aniket kind of gave a little bit of a teaser to this session, so I'm excited to have you on KBC.
I'm Kirti Mutatkar and I'm here in conversation with Pranav. Welcome to the show, Pranav.
Pranav Mutatkar: Thank you. Yeah. If I remember correctly, he said something about how often do you think about the Roman Empire and our book is about the Roman Empire. I mean, I'll let you tee it up, but our book is about the Roman Emperor and I think about the Roman Empire a lot. So
Kirti Mutatkar: You know, I was, I didn't know why that was a thing until you guys explained it to me. So what is it? What does that whole thing mean?
Pranav Mutatkar: Yeah, so there was a TikTok trend going on for a while where [00:01:00] girlfriends or wives would ask their partners, how often do you think about the Roman Empire? And, you know, the boyfriends and husbands would respond with things that they thought was wild. So like once a week, once a day, many times a day. And then all the women on TikTok were like, why are men thinking about the Roman Empire so much.
Kirti Mutatkar: Oh they do. That's interesting, huh? That is, oh, so that's where it started from. So what is this book? So you recommended this book to me to read. This book is Augustus by John Williams. Why this book? What made you think about this book when I asked you?
Pranav Mutatkar: Yeah, there's a couple reasons I thought this book would be interesting. One is I love history. And this is about the first Roman Emperor, so I thought it'd be really fun to talk about that and the history of it. The reason I started reading it is because we were gonna go on a trip to Rome and I was just reading all sorts of things about Rome to kind of get like a feeling of what that would be like, and [00:02:00] when I started reading it, I thought it was gonna be more of a traditional history, but it's actually a really, really cool book, which is told through letters, through correspondence. And I was just amazed by the structure of the book, but also the writing because the author is a really, really good writer. And so that's why I suggested we talk about it. 'Cause it has that great mix of like the history and the intrigue and all that stuff, but also really good writing.
Kirti Mutatkar: That's true. So you kind of gave a synopsis of what the book is about. Right. So it is about Emperor Augustus, and it is through a series of letters and other documents and stuff. You get to know Emperor Augustus. So kind of the epistolary style of writing. And so that's the gist. So if people need... I think beyond that, we don't need to give anything else about the book, right? Because it's a historical fiction. It's about Emperor Augustus, and you're right, actually, I read half of it on the flight to Rome, and for me, I felt this [00:03:00] book brought the Roman Empire alive to me. And it was really interesting to me when you, as we are walking through Rome, to see it from the eyes of Emperor Augustus and John Williams. And it just brought the whole experience of Rome alive for me. So that was a really good book. So thank you for suggesting that.
Pranav Mutatkar: Yeah, I think a lot of times with history. You know, we think about the great, there's a theory of history called the Great Man theory of history. And basically the idea is like, you know, when I was a kid, and especially like when you were kids, [00:04:00] history was taught in a series of ways. It was taught there was this great man, here's what he did. There was this next great man, here's what he did. And so you think about these people, Augustus, Napoleon, Churchill, these quote unquote great men of history. But I think what that doesn't allow you to see is that these people were all extremely human. And the reason I like this book and thought it was such a great introduction to Rome is because when you go into Rome, it is a place where mythology and the mundane mix together. And you read about this person who is the first Roman emperor, right? This is like the stuff of myth and mythology and legend, right? But he's humanized here. And some of the stuff, the conversations they have, some of the ways they talk, some of the institutions Rome has, some of the ways the Roman institutions were breaking down, all those are very, very, very similar to our modern times. And so sometimes you read it and you're like, that [00:05:00] sentence that that person said could be a sentence I say to my brother or my mom or my friend. It's not, we're not any different as humans.
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah, that's an interesting point because that's, you're right. And when you read in school and stuff, it kind of is a very different format. But what I also liked about... when sometimes it still happens, maybe it's not just in school, but you watch a movie or you read a book, when you think of Emperor Augustus and he created all this, so he must be an amazing, extremely smart, extremely good leader, right? But what you just said is so true about this book. It actually tells you what flaws he had. It tells you his relationship, how he had to sometimes sacrifice some of his personal relationships at the expense of [00:06:00] putting on a face of an emperor, right? So it's very interesting on how he's conflicted in his head on, oh, I made this rule. Now my daughter's gonna be impacted. So, oh, that might, then he starts reflecting on it. And I don't think he was also an accidental kind of... put in that. Or maybe he makes us appear that way, that he's not really interested in this. Maybe he was deep down that was a ploy or that was his, the way he was projecting or kind of having people perceive him as someone, oh, I just didn't wanna be this, but I am. Right. So very interesting. So it gives you a very good look into different forms of a leader, basically. That's what he is.
Pranav Mutatkar: Yeah. There's this, I mean, the interesting thing is when you read these myths and mythologies, every generation looks at the generation before them and uses them as a sort of yardstick in a way. So, you know, the Monets are looking at the Monet for impressionism. And in art, this happens all the time. Like you're responding to the writers before, but those writers responding to other people and there's always a certain yardstick. And so Augustus was responding to Julius Caesar [00:07:00] and trying to follow his mantle. Julius Caesar, there's a famous scene that Julius Caesar has where he comes across in a war campaign, this statue of Alexander the Great, and he starts crying. He starts breaking down. He looks at the statue and he says, by the time he was my age, he had conquered the whole known world. What have I done? And I think those things make it interesting because what I find fascinating in this book is you see Augustus trying to be this thing that he's looking up to, but then also he notices how he has to play Augustus. Like there's like a Cary Grant quote where Cary Grant says, everybody wants to be Cary Grant. Even I want to be Cary Grant. Yeah. So it's kind of like that where Augustus is like stuck in this kind of role. He has to fit his own role. He's a man. He's not a myth, but the myth, even during his time is being created and he has to be like, how do I do the Augustus? How do I play this Augustus [00:08:00] part?
Kirti Mutatkar: Right, right, he's actually playing that role. That is so true. And when at the, towards the end when he writes that, he reflects back on his years and then he says, this is, it's all basically it's a stage, right? All the world's a stage. And he acted, he did his role of acting in it and moving things forward. And he saw himself as that. He said, how do I make sure Rome is sustained after me? Right? And Rome at that point was at the pinnacle of civilization and how do you do that? So he understood his role on the stage. When he came in, I was into this world and he played his role and different roles and he reflects back on, I played this role and I played that role, and I played, like we all do, we all. Different situations in our life. We play different roles. Right. In our, and towards the end we'll reflect back on which part of our, which role that we really played. Yeah, exactly.
Pranav Mutatkar: And I think the interesting thing too is [00:09:00] in our modern world, we think a lot that we have control. That we have free will. And it's probably because we all learn about Isaac Newton in science. And so it's like, okay, the world is cause and effect, right? We think that's what we think science is. You drop something, gravity brings it down. But what I find interesting about Roman time is that, and you notice this in the book, is that it's unclear to him sometimes how much free will he has and how much it's just the destiny or it's the gods living through him, or it's what he has to do. This history podcaster I like named Dan Carlin, he always talks about the people who are crushed in the gears of history because sometimes there are people. And we don't think about this because we think of ourselves as individualist people, but when you read about certain people during Roman times who had to live in oppressive regimes, all those sorts of stuff, what can one individual do? They were trapped in this [00:10:00] grander larger trend. And so that's what I find interesting about him too. It's not just that kind of like you were saying, it's not just that he was acting, but he was also reacting and he was trying to figure out to the end of his life, how much of this was me and how much of it was the gods speaking to me, and what do I owe to listening to the gods and to my destiny and to my fate, and how much do I owe myself? Like as an example this is not a spoiler it's history, but Julius Caesar appoints this person named Octavius to be basically be his person he's gonna groom, right? And then Julius Caesar ends up getting murdered, right? Famously. And so there's a moment where in this book they get the letter. Augustus, Octavius Caesar gets this letter that his uncle, Julius Caesar has died. And initially we see it from the people [00:11:00] who are there's point of view and not from Octavius's point of view, and they're trying to figure out like, is this guy sad? Is he angry? What is going on in him as an individual? And when we hear from Octavius, this character, later at the end of the book, he talks about that scene and he basically talks about the fact that he felt this weird, peculiar thing where he knew. Now the die is cast. Now he knows what this destiny is. Now he knows who to be. And it was almost like him putting his hand in a glove. And I find that scene very interesting because we're so individualistic in our modern times. We are like, I am going to pick the perfect college, then I'm gonna pick the perfect job, then I'm gonna pick the perfect partner, wife, husband, whoever. And we think these are all these things we can control. And when you read this book, you're like. You're not accounting for all the ways that life or God or fate or whatever you think of [00:12:00] is putting things upon you, which I found interesting about the book.
Kirti Mutatkar: That is very interesting because the other book in our season, Sophie's World, kind of is very similar to what you're talking about here because it's the impact of the society. It's the times that we live in. It's we as individuals. What is needed of us at that time from our responsibilities as family, from our responsibilities in our society, in what work we do, right? We are. We create that we, we create that. And that becomes, when you reflect back, for us, that's history and that's what Augustus did and that's why we are today. But like you said, he's just reacting to the needs of the time and creating something that he's hoping lives beyond him. So he's his, one of the things I really, [00:13:00] really like, especially looking at it from as a leader, I like the fact that when his friends that Marcus Agrippa and others, when they're looking at building Rome, they're not looking to build Rome just for today. When they were living, they were looking to build Rome for future, and I found that fascinating as how their whole focus is on Rome, the love for Rome came before anything else for them. And they just, I mean, like they wanted this to exist beyond, and that I felt was an amazing quality that he had.
Pranav Mutatkar: Yeah. It's interesting. I was reading this article [00:14:00] by someone named David Chapman and he was basically talking about how this idea of nobility is rare in today's world. So what we tend to see in the culture war is there are certain people who basically denigrate people who have accomplishments or achievements, or they look down upon them. And they're like, oh, the fact that they achieved means that they must be special, means they must have gotten all this stuff. It means they must be doing something bad or something evil. And so oftentimes greatness for this group of people is just a way to make themselves feel more like a victim. And so there's that's one group. And then there's another group that is basically responding to that first group and saying, we're not victims, we're great. But you know, it's like they protest too much and instead of actually being noble and achieving greatness, they become craven. They become selfish. They achieve, they're like, oh, I'm just gonna do all these things for myself. And the what, Augustus by no means is [00:15:00] maybe even a good person like in history, but they have this value of nobility, which is this idea that you achieve greatness in order to serve. And their legacy in some way is linked to the benefits that they provide the people. And so that the baths they make, like when we were in Rome, we went to the baths of Hadrian, right? So why did these people make these beautiful works of art? Huge public works where everyone can meet because their legacy then becomes this is what this emperor gave to the people. But even that is kind of fading or like that is an interesting concept that's kind of fading this fact that you become so great so that you can just give. Right. Which I think is kind of what's in, he kind of hints at it. That's not really what the theme of the book is, but that's like, there's undercurrents of that as Augustus looks back at his legacy and tries to figure out was I actually noble? Did I actually serve them? Was I good?
Kirti Mutatkar: And that is true. I think, and even from, as you're looking at the book, there's a scene as you were talking, it came to my [00:16:00] mind, this was Emperor Augustus and who comes after him? I'm forgetting. Tiberius. Tiberius. So Tiberius, his stepson is coming in, right? And in the letter, somebody's just describing who is coming in. So he says this person is walking towards us, very dressed in rich robes and a tall guy, good looking guy, and like with a very stately kind of manner. And here is a person who looks like in a normal, like workman's clothes and something doesn't even, there's nothing, it looks like a normal, any other person. And they walk towards us and he says. He mistakes for a second that Augustus is the guy who's coming in with all the fancy robes, and Augustus is actually the guy who would look like anybody else. And, but they come in and they, then he describes how they sit down and have a conversation, and as the conversation progresses, he just sees Augustus and his [00:17:00] intellect and his leadership shine. But he did not do anything to show that, right? It's like the things that I keep saying looking at what we do at UnitedAg and stuff, right? The way you dress, the way you act and you're like acting like, oh this and that, and the CEOs and stuff. You don't have to act it. You have to be just be you. And that could just be in your normal stuff, but your leadership shines. So it's like a, it's very interesting. As you were talking about that, that reminded me. So he never, I don't think he wanted, or he flaunted his greatness. I don't think that was, he was naturally a born kind of a person
Pranav Mutatkar: Yeah. My, one of my old mentors used to say lions don't need to roar. Everybody knows it's a lion. And so like, in the same, it's kind of like a same idea. What I find interesting about the book too though, is that [00:18:00] like one of John Williams' inspirations must have been this book called The 12 Lives of the Caesars, something like that by a Roman author named Suetonius. It's basically about the first 12 Caesars and Octavius Augustus, who this book is about, is perceived by this author as the best Caesar and the best of the first 12. And the reason he's considered the best is because he's such a good actor. And so it is interesting in the book sometimes it's unclear how humble is he? How intelligent is he? How much of this is an act, how much sometimes he does like he does things for glory, but then you can't tell sometimes he's incredibly cruel. Is that cruelty for a purpose or is he a cruel person? It's, and this is why the book is so interesting because it's not told like he's a protagonist because, and it's not told from a first person's perspective. Because one of the things is when you watch a movie, and even if it's a [00:19:00] anti-hero. If you are watching the protagonist, you by definition empathize with them a little bit. And so by doing this where it's like letters from friends, letters, commenting about it different like histories, and you get accountings of parties, but you never hear from this character. You are also for most of the book left with this sense of mystery. Is he a bad person? Is he cruel? Is he actually humble? Is he actually smart? Is this all an act? Like what, what's happening here? Which I thought was.
Kirti Mutatkar: That is interesting because towards the end too, we don't know because even when he writes his reflecting back, we don't know. He knows that's gonna be read. Yeah. He knows he's leaving a letter for someone. He actually intentionally left it, so he wanted to be remembered a certain way. That might also be [00:20:00] that. That might have been performance. We'd never know. Yeah. So what did you think of the relationship with the different relationships he had, his with his wife, with his daughter? Any, what are your thoughts about it?
Pranav Mutatkar: Yeah. I thought his relationship with his friends was really good and really interesting for the first third of the book. Yeah. The reason I found it so interesting is because in the past when I've tried to write stuff like a common mistake for beginning writers is you write a person and it sounds like you, you basically, every character sounds like they're kind of the same person. And what I really liked about John Williams' writing is that these people all felt like they could be friends, but they all felt very distinct with very unique personalities. And [00:21:00] he has a line in there that I don't exactly remember, but it's something like, there's a moment where all these three friends are together and they're laughing together and he says, for everything that happened afterward, both the tragedy and misfortune and all of good, it's like that was. The most, one of the most beautiful moments in my life, just together as teenagers laughing together. And I think that really captured something about like good friendships. Yeah. And I think his, the other relationship that's very pivotal in the middle of the book, which is really interesting is his relationship with his daughter Julia, because Rome is a patriarchal society. She was, she's kind of one of those people who's stuck in the gears of history, right? Like she's stuck because of her place, because of her status, because of who she was born to. And so it's interesting, without giving too much away, interesting, like [00:22:00] how they're able to kind of navigate that relationship and how much love he has for her, but also how much as an emperor he is bound. Like you would think that the people at top or like the emperor of Rome, of this huge civilization and the world as they knew it, would have all this power and freedom. But he is bound by all the customs and stuff too. And, and eventually that's what dooms his daughter, and it's very interesting
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah, that's so true. That relationship with his daughter reminded me of the Ramayana, the Ram and Sita. So this is like an Indian, I would say epic story. And in there the husband and wife, Ram and Sita husband and wife, and they love each other. Ram has that really deep love for his wife, but because of what the society expects him to do, at some point he puts her to test. [00:23:00] So it reminded me something here where she's banished from Rome because he wants to be seen a certain way in the society. Right. So very similar. It reminded me of that.
Pranav Mutatkar: And he, I mean, he can't rule without the will of the people. And also in our modern society we see power in the hands of one person as being really bad and scary, and that's absolutely true. What is interesting for these people, the Romans, is when they're in the empire. They would write of the republic almost in a way that was like, man, people had to live through that, like the will of the people and representatives and all this stuff. So it's interesting that the emperor is bound in some ways because he's the first emperor. He's even more bound by the will of the people. He's kind of making the transition between a Republican form of government and quote unquote Republican form of government and empire. So it's interesting, like how he's also stuck in
Kirti Mutatkar: That's true. And the other thing that you said earlier was the author and how he, when you read different characters, you read Julius's character or Agrippa's character, all of them. What an amazing, what an intelligent person, right? So we are thinking Emperor Augustus is intelligent for, in my eyes, John Williams is a [00:24:00] like a super intelligent, because you actually. So different. They're so different from each other and it's like really, really done very well. I think it's like a delicious piece of writing that you see and you actually you kind of, with their friendship, you actually feel like you have different friends who have totally different way of talking and thinking and it was really amazing. The way he did that
Pranav Mutatkar: Yeah, it's really cool. And it's historical fiction. But a lot of it's heavily, heavily, it's not like some historical fiction where it completely is much more fiction. I would say this is much more historical than it is fiction. Not that it's dry, but rather that he is heavily inspired by like the letters he's read and like he's done a lot of research and so there's also an authenticity. It doesn't feel as if [00:25:00] he is imposing modernity on it. Yeah. It, there's authenticity to it. And so that's why when I read it and I'm like, oh, these people talked like me. I know that's because I can trust that's true because I know how much research he did and how similar his writing is to like the time writing at the time, which is cool.
Kirti Mutatkar: Agreed. Agreed. And to know that about what's happening in those times, that's really, really awesome. It's, and the other part I felt with this book is people might say, I don't like history, I don't like historical fiction. Augustus seems kind of, oh, might be a very history oriented book. This story, the way he writes this, it has a, you kind of, things unfold and it's like a mystery and you're finding things out and it's exciting. Yeah. You know, history, but it's still so fascinating that he keeps your attention going.
Pranav Mutatkar: Yeah, that podcast that I mentioned before, Dan Carlin, he has a quote where he says, history has ruined fiction for me. So as you read more and more history and read good books of history, not the dry textbooks. There's like, yeah, like you said, intrigue and drama and gossip and one person going against another person, but then they're a double agent [00:26:00] and it's like all sorts of interesting, fascinating things happening. And you don't often in history get interiority, right? You don't get insight into much of what these people were thinking and doing, which is why I think like historical fiction's really cool. 'Cause a lot of times when you're thinking about like. You read, this person won this big war and then they were able to save Europe. But I'm almost thinking about what was it like the night before? What was the dinner like? How did they go up? What were their feelings after? What was that celebration? It's like they're human beings and so it's very, that's what I think is cool about, it's kind of fleshes a little bit more of that out. Then it's not just events. One event. Second event. Third event.
Kirti Mutatkar: Right. Even when the last part, when he is, his ship is going and he sees different parts of Rome and he is remembering things, the things that happen with Cleopatra and the war that happens and all that. So he's reflecting back, including he comes to, he sees far off, oh, that's where Julia was on that island, and so it is [00:27:00] interesting how he kind of, all that is like. Yeah, it's an amazing, it can be a great movie actually, if they write a movie about it. It's very well done. Very well done.
Pranav Mutatkar: Yeah. I think with my favorite books and I like movies a lot too, so my favorite movies there is a real feeling that it, you get this double thing where you feel as if you're reading a writer who has a singular vision and you're kind of like allowing yourself to merge into that person's mind and that world. And there's that beauty to that. And you get to experience something completely new. And there's also this dual feeling where you feel like you're reading a book, but you're really kind of like [00:28:00] learning about yourself. It just feels more like a reflection or a mirror or something like that. And so that's why you know, a great book. You read it at 15 and then you read it at 25 and you read it at 35 and so on and so forth. It's a different book because you're a different person. And so I think that to me, this book is gonna be one of those types of books because there's gonna be different types of stuff I highlight or themes or passages I like. And there's so much richness in there. He's such a good writer. That yeah there's a lot to get out of it.
Kirti Mutatkar: So I was going to go to the KBC Book Radar because you just said something on how rereading the book, right? So I have this KBC Book Radar. Two factors. One is where is it shelf worthy when I say that? So like what you just said about this book, where would it be? So is it something that you pick up and you like the book and you say, okay, I'm done with the book. Let me put it in the donate pile at the local library and give it away. Or is it a book that you read it, you like it, maybe it's there somewhere, or maybe you just [00:29:00] don't think about it. Or you keep it on your shelf and it's there on your shelf. Maybe someday you'll pick it up or is it next to your bedside and you keep it next to your bed and look through it. Where do you think your book, where is it for you? Where
Pranav Mutatkar: I think for me it's like a shelf book. When I get into certain moods, I get into like moods, which, there's a cluster of books that like I always turn to. And so this would probably be like if I'm, like I said, the cool thing about this book is there are like so many themes, but it's also about Rome, it's also about history. And so when I'm in any of those moods or zones or I'm looking for something, I'd definitely look it up. So it'd definitely be a shelf and I would probably not reread the whole thing for a few years. But I, there's so many very, very good passages that are really interesting. That I'd leaf through it and maybe read a little bit of it. And I think the way it's structured too helps. [00:30:00] Because when it's like a big novel, it's hard to just dip in somewhere. But because these are letters and things like that, you can kind of like be like, oh yeah, there's like this random letter in the middle or this short passage that I'm gonna read. So yeah, it'd be on the shelf.
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah, for me too, because I felt, this is really interesting. So we came up with this, or I came up with this idea for this KBC a couple months ago, and you had suggested this book. So I read the book right away and in the next couple weeks or months. I've read this book almost two or three times. And the interesting thing for me when I did that, so sometimes I do do that when I have to discuss and stuff, but at some point I get bored, right? So I'm like, okay, second time around, just within the span of two or three months, if you do it, it feels like, oh, I got this. But the interesting part to me for this book felt like. I started even this morning, I started reading it and I wanted to finish it. I mean, I know the book and I've read it, right, but it just, something about it feels like. I love, I might just keep reading it over and over again because I relate back to my leadership style at work. I relate back to maybe a speech I had [00:31:00] to give. I copied a few things from here to do my speech. So there's things in here is like really cool. So what about so other thing I do print out with KBC is the reason I like to read books and 'cause I love reading books, but the, what makes a book really interesting for me, or what gets exciting for me is when I discuss a book with somebody else. Or if you only read a book, it has this fizz factor in you. Like it gets ideas or different things start getting like, like I said, the leadership style. Some of the things I saw Augustus, and I'm like, oh, this is really cool. And so it creates the sparks. So does this create like fireworks in your brain where it goes like fireworks or is it like a flat soda or is it in between? Where does this book live for you?
Pranav Mutatkar: I would say fireworks. Fireworks. I mean, there's, I've been, well after I read the book and I went to Rome, it was kind of like a one two punch, but I was like thinking about legacy and like the importance of like, we talked about public works and beauty [00:32:00] and destiny and relationships and history and what, what that's like in history. A lot of things that we talked about or things that I have been like writing about or journaling about, or just been curious about. So yeah,
Kirti Mutatkar: Cool. So what do you think if somebody says, I might not have the time to read this book, do you think they should still join us for the roundtable discussion on this book? And why or why not?
Pranav Mutatkar: Yeah. I think there's so many things. That are so many themes that we've talked about that are just relevant for most curious people. And the thing that is interesting about this book is there's a lot of Venn diagrams, so, right. Even if you haven't read the book, if you're interested in like history. It can be fun. If you're interested in like, you know, Rome as a place and an idea if you're interested in like legacy, like there's a lot of themes here that are very, very rich. So I think that it would still be worth it. And you could just like, I think it might [00:33:00] be useful just Wikipedia for like five minutes,
Kirti Mutatkar: Augustus, yeah, join us for the discussion, but I would if you are a book lover, and even if you're not, I think picking up this book and reading it would be really awesome because like we said, the author is amazing, but if you don't get a chance to do that, you might get a lot out of attending the roundtable discussion too. And maybe the discussion then gets you excited and you go back and read the book. That has happened to me when I hear something. So thank you Pranav for this podcast, and I hope that we have people joining in to a roundtable discussion. So the way it'll work is, I'll send this out and the first 12 people sign up, join our discussion. You'll be part of that discussion as a guest. And, looking forward to that discussion. Like, because like you said, we can actually have 12 episodes on the same different topics that you can actually pull out from this book. And just the next 12 months you can just talk about the book. That's how much [00:34:00] of depth and the different concepts that they have in this book.
Pranav Mutatkar: Yeah, that's true. And I would also say before we end, there's some books that are amazing books but have to be read as a book. John Williams is also a good sentence writer, and so you can read. Dip. You can kind of, like I said, like dip into parts of it and read passages and sentences and still