Kirti Mutatkar and Smitha Rau discuss Vivek Shanbhag's slim but powerful novella about a family transformed by sudden wealth. The Story: A modest Indian family lives within their means—the father is a salesman, they eat out weekly, and if the kids want something extra, dad suddenly won't have coffee. When money arrives, everything changes. This 70-130 page novella, originally written in Kannada, follows the family's moral unraveling through an unnamed narrator's eyes. The Title: "Ghachar Ghochar" is a made-up family word meaning tangled up—not clean or clear. The title captures everything: the story, relationships, and ambiguous ending all remain tangled. Key Themes: Money's Corrupting Power - "It's not we who control money, it's the money that controls us. When there's only a little, it behaves meekly. When it grows, it becomes brash and has its way with us." The sister changes most—gaining "clout," treating people poorly, leaving her decent husband, returning with goons to steal jewelry. "The suddenly rich start holding an umbrella in the moonlight." Narrator as Unreliable Participant - He tells the story as if he did everything right, but readers catch his complicity. He's uncomfortable—his wife judges him for not working—but he doesn't change. His honeymoon gifts fall flat when she realizes it's not his money. The Ant Metaphor - The mother wages war on kitchen ants, eliminating anything threatening family enjoyment. Later, the narrator squishes ants; his wife is horrified. This foreshadows how the family treats bigger "problems"—possibly a dog, possibly people. Nothing is explicit. No Clean Ending - The book is decidedly "ghochar"—tangled with no resolution. At the end, Vincent the waiter says: "Sir, you want to wash your hand? There's blood on it." Literal or figurative? Did something terrible happen? "Accidents happen, right?" The ambiguity haunts. KBC Book Radar: Brain Fizz Factor: 4-4.5 out of 5 - Deceptively simple but deeply layered Bookshelf Worthy: High - Smitha read it 3 times; short enough to reread, rich enough to deserve it Why Read: Only 70-130 pages—can finish in one session. Easy, relatable, readable. But don't mistake simplicity for shallowness. Rewards rereading and discussion. Rich themes about wealth, morality, family, and complicity. A masterclass in saying everything by saying nothing explicitly. Credits: Host and Creator: Kirti Mutatkar Guest: Smitha Rau Show Editor: Aniket Mutatkar Logo & Design: Smitha Rau
Ghachar Ghochar by Vivek Shanbhag
Kirti Mutatkar sits down with Smitha Rau to discuss Vivek Shanbhag's slim but powerful novella about a family transformed by sudden wealth.
The Story: A modest Indian family lives within their means—the father is a salesman, they eat out weekly with set dishes, and if the kids want something extra, dad suddenly won't have coffee. They're in tune with each other's needs. But when money arrives, everything changes. This 70-130 page novella, originally written in Kannada and translated to English, follows the family's moral unraveling through the eyes of an unnamed narrator.
The Title: "Ghachar Ghochar" is a made-up family word meaning tangled up, mixed up, all tied up—not clean or clear. Most families have these secret words. The title perfectly captures the story: everything becomes tangled, including the ending, which leaves readers to untangle meaning themselves.
Key Themes:
Money's Corrupting Power - "It's not we who control money, it's the money that controls us. When there's only a little, it behaves meekly. When it grows, it becomes brash and has its way with us." The sister changes most dramatically—gaining "clout," treating people poorly, even leaving her decent husband and returning with goons to steal jewelry from her in-laws.
The Suddenly Rich - The author writes that "the suddenly rich start holding an umbrella in the moonlight." Is it showing off or newfound sensitivity? Smitha notes only about a third of lottery winners actually go broke, but many do put on airs. Newly wealthy want the world to know—what's the point of being rich if nobody knows?
Narrator as Unreliable Participant - The narrator tells the story as if he did everything right, but readers catch hints of his complicity. He's uncomfortable—his wife judges him for not working, taking money from the family business—but he doesn't change. His gift-giving on their honeymoon falls flat when his wife realizes it's not his money. Some readers dislike him, but if an author makes you dislike a character that deeply, they've done their job.
Clues and Rereading - The first read is good; subsequent reads reveal layers. Smitha read it 3 times and found more each time. The author plants clues throughout that only make sense after the ending. Because nothing is explicitly resolved, readers question everything: Why the ants? Why that incident? Where are the clues?
The Ant Metaphor - Early on, the mother wages war on kitchen ants, tracking them with a flashlight at night. She eliminates anything threatening family enjoyment. Later, the narrator squishes ants; his wife is horrified—"What did they do to you?" This foreshadows how the family treats bigger "problems"—possibly a dog, possibly people. Nothing is explicit, but the parallel is chilling.
Vincent the Waiter - Like Jeeves from P.G. Wodehouse, Vincent appears subservient but drops wisdom: "One story, many sides" when customers fight. At the end: "Sir, you want to wash your hand? There's blood on it." Is it literal or figurative? Readers don't know. His perfect timing and pithy comments punctuate the moral decay.
No Clean Ending - Some readers want closure, neat bows. This book is decidedly "ghochar"—tangled up with no resolution. Did something terrible happen? Maybe. Accidents happen, right? People die in accidents. But just saying that makes you uncomfortable. The ambiguity keeps the book with you.
Gender Dynamics - Four female characters: the girlfriend and wife are feminist, voicing concerns about women's rights. The mother and sister don't engage in those conversations. But are they not feminist, or are they survivalists? They cater to the breadwinner—not because he's male, but because he brings money. The sister can't handle her decent husband's modest life and returns to wealth, even using violence to get what she wants.
Relatable Details - Sisters making excuses to avoid chores, hiding in bathrooms. Ant infestations where dishes sit in plates of water. Joint family dynamics. The breadwinner's schedule dictating the entire household. Business families saw themselves completely: "Oh my God, this is us!"
Cultural Accessibility - Non-Indian readers can appreciate family dynamics, the corrupting influence of wealth, and moral ambiguity. Indian readers recognize specific cultural touchstones. The translation from Kannada works remarkably well—nuances come through despite language change.
Translation Quality - Smitha, a Kannada speaker, didn't initially realize it was translated—high praise for translator Srinath Perur. Some nuances may be lost, but the author's skill shines through. The audiobook, narrated by an Indian voice (though not Kannada), is also excellent.
Small Details, Big Impact - The author says things without saying them. Second and third reads reveal how carefully crafted each moment is. When you think the story goes one direction—whoops—it pivots. This skill keeps readers engaged and thinking long after finishing.
KBC Book Radar:
Why Read: Only 70-130 pages—can finish in 1 session. Easy, relatable, readable. But don't mistake simplicity for shallowness. This book rewards rereading and discussion. Perfect for roundtables even without reading—rich themes about wealth, morality, family, complicity, and how we become what we once despised.
Discussion Gold: What happened at the end? Is the narrator sympathetic? How does money change people? What's the blood on his hands? Why the ants? Indian vs. non-Indian perspectives? Could this be a movie? (Yes, both agree—it should be.)
A masterclass in saying everything by saying nothing explicitly.
Credits: Host and Creator: Kirti Mutatkar
Guest: Smitha Rau
Show Editor: Aniket Mutatkar
Logo & Design: Smitha Rau
Smitha Rau & Kirti Mutatkar discuss "Ghachar Ghochar" by Vivek Shanbhag
Kirti Mutatkar: I am super excited today because this is, I think, 1 of the first books, first book by an Indian author that we are discussing today. And I have Smitha Rau here to discuss "Ghachar Ghochar" by Vivek Shanbhag. So excited to have you here, Smitha.
Smitha Rau: Thank you. Happy to be here.
Kirti Mutatkar: I know. And this is like we were talking earlier, right? So this is—I didn't realize when I was reading this book that this was a translated book. Did you realize that?
Smitha Rau: I didn't know that when I first heard of this book. Somewhere on the web I heard that it's recommended reading for some high schoolers or some university students or something like that. And then I saw the name and I looked it up and it was originally written in Kannada, which is my mother tongue. So I was curious about it, and I looked it up and I found the book. And I enjoyed it. So I recommended it to our book club and we discussed it in our book club.
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah. I actually really loved it too because this was, I think usually you don't tend to read Indian authors and I, for some reason, maybe you knew it, but even not knowing it was translated was interesting. And then later you find out it's Kannada. I actually thought "Ghachar Ghochar" was a word, but it's not right.
Smitha Rau: It is not. "Ghachar Ghochar" is actually a completely made up word. It's 1 of those words that most families have, a secret kind of word for something relevant to their families, and it most likely, other people outside the family don't even know what it means. And this is 1 of those words, this is a word that the narrator's wife's family makes up and it means "ghachar ghochar" means tangled up or mixed up. Or all tied up. Not clean, not clear, kind of a connotation. So it's just a made up word. "Ghachar Ghochar."
Kirti Mutatkar: And it's such a great word for the book or the—it's a short story, right. I mean, it's not nearly a novel or something.
Smitha Rau: It's a very short novel. Yeah. It's only about 70-ish pages. I would say 130. 1 session. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a very easy read. But the first time I read it I thought it was good, but after we had the discussion we kind of heard different perspectives and I got into some of the nuances and I read it a couple more times. And every time I found that I found more things to appreciate in the book.
Kirti Mutatkar: In the book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's a big reveal or something happens towards the end and as you're reading it, the second or third time you realize, oh, he actually was giving us hints as he went along.
Smitha Rau: There are lots of clues that the author gave us, but we kind of, I kind of missed it the first time.
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah. So sometimes people, when people join our roundtable, right? They say, I don't have time to read. And they listen to this discussion and they just join it because there are different themes that we can pick from here and go deeper, but what do you recommend? Do you recommend people to just pick it up and read it?
Smitha Rau: I think they should. It's, for 1 thing, it's not going to take too much time. It's not a huge commitment, and it's very easygoing. It's very relatable. It's definitely very readable. And it is a story of a simple life of a family with very modest means, living sort of a couple of generations ago in India. It's the setting is in India. And the author takes us through their lifestyle as is—the father is a salesman and how the family kind of lives within their means. They try to enjoy things, they go out to eat every week, and they all have their set things that they eat, right. And on 1 occasion or some weekends, if the kids decide they want to have an extra dish, the dad will suddenly not feel like having a coffee. You know, those kinds of things where people are very in tune with what the rest of the family is going through. But things change once money comes into their family. So it's very relatable in that sense. I saw a lot of similarities to my family upbringing early on. Right? We didn't have that big change in our family, but I found it very interesting.
Kirti Mutatkar: So what about, I know we have people who join our roundtable who are not necessarily from Indian ethnicity or might not relate to that. What do you recommend? Do you think that would be a great read for them too?
Smitha Rau: So our non-Indian friends I think will also enjoy the book. Because there are some things that are very typical of growing up in a family that were kind of brought out and highlighted that I really enjoyed. 1 of them was how the narrator's sister comes up with excuses for not doing her chores. Yeah. And I know a lot of people, I'm sure everybody does. Those people who kind of find excuses to not do their chores or just end up hanging out in the bathroom just because they don't want to come out and do chores. That was, those small little things are, you know, very relatable and it kind of was woven into the story. So I really enjoyed that. Having ant infestations, I grew up in India and that happened fairly frequently, and I remember my mom would put all the dishes inside plates of water. Yeah. So just to, and you would find ants floating in them and, and as suddenly as they appear, they would disappear as well. And that is 1 of the problems that the characters in this book face early on in their, in the story.
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah, and I think when anybody who does not grow up in India or have that Indian background, I think for them, I don't necessarily feel it gives—I mean, that's not everybody's story in India, but it actually gives a little bit taste of like joint families and how the women play the role and what that role looks like and kind of when you don't have money and what does that look like? I think it just gives you a taste of that. So I'm thinking, as I'm thinking about this, I was thinking maybe I should introduce this to my other book club.
Smitha Rau: So just to make it clear, not absolutely everything is relatable. It is a fictional story after all. So, you know—
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah. Some things you feel like you've seen it with other families or you see it in movies and stuff like that. And some things you actually cringe, right?
Smitha Rau: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of them.
Kirti Mutatkar: Some, like, oh, what do these guys do? So I did have quite a few of those moments, especially the female characters. Yes. Any thoughts on that?
Smitha Rau: There are actually 4, right? Female characters in this story. Yeah. There is the narrator's girlfriend early on, and then there is the narrator's wife. And the narrator's mom and his sister. Sister, yeah. So without giving too much away, the girlfriend and the wife are more of a feminist bent of mind. They stand up for women's rights and voice concerns when they see something. And the other 2 do not actually participate in any conversation of that sort. Right. So I don't know if you would say they are not feminist. Would you say that?
Kirti Mutatkar: I probably—I actually yes and no because I feel like some, the 2 of them, the other 2 of them are a little bit looking out for themselves. So if they cater to the male in the family who's bringing in a lot of money, maybe it is from the mindset that this person is taking care of them. So it might not necessarily be that he's a man and I'm a victim. Like, I need to cook and serve and do all that. Yeah. I felt like it could just be, because I'm a survivor, I'm a, what do you call it? Survivalist.
Smitha Rau: Mm-hmm. Right.
Kirti Mutatkar: And I'm looking out for myself. Yeah. So of course the guy who's bringing in the money, I'm going to cater to him and cook for him and do—
Smitha Rau: He's always right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah. Because the sister leaves the husband, who's a nice husband, she just walks—
Smitha Rau: Who sounds like a decent family and a decent chap, but she cannot handle that.
Kirti Mutatkar: She cannot handle that. Yeah, she cannot handle that. Yeah. And she goes back and that was interesting. That was like a little bit of shocking thing, but I know we are giving that away. But she walks in and takes some, what do you call that, goons—
Smitha Rau: And they scare—they scare—
Kirti Mutatkar: And they scare her in-laws—
Smitha Rau: Her in-laws.
Kirti Mutatkar: And get the jewelry and—
Smitha Rau: Right, right.
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah. Oh yeah. Interesting characters.
Smitha Rau: The money plays a big role. Yeah. In this story. Yeah. And it changes everything. Yeah. And I actually have a quote here. If I can read it, it's, it's not we who control money, it's the money that controls us. When there's only a little, it behaves meekly. When it grows, it becomes brash and has its way with us. So that quote is very telling about the story. Yeah. The way they are, they were before money and after. Yeah.
Kirti Mutatkar: I mean, even though what I—
Smitha Rau: The sister's character. Especially the sister's character.
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah. And then she feels that she's somebody—
Smitha Rau: She has clout. Yeah. Yeah.
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah. And she starts treating people a certain way.
Smitha Rau: Certainly. I think she's the 1 person who is the most affected by the wealth. I felt her, the change in her character, the growth of her character, took a turn because of the wealth in their lives.
Kirti Mutatkar: So, you know, the narrator who is actually telling us the story is telling us the story and he's part of all this.
Smitha Rau: He is. Right.
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah. He's also doing this.
Smitha Rau: Yeah.
Kirti Mutatkar: And so is that—sometimes you want the narrator to be likable. So I'm not sure I disliked him, but he's like, oh, but he did all the things. I'm like, he's as part of the whole thing as—you know?
Smitha Rau: Some people may not like this book. Yeah. Because they don't like the characters, but the way I look at it. If the author can develop a character to that extent where we dislike them. Yeah. Then he's done a good job. Right, exactly.
Kirti Mutatkar: And the small things, right. It's like, what I really like about this author is these small things. When you, especially you read it the second time you realize, oh my God, this author is so good.
Smitha Rau: Yeah. How do you say something without you saying it, you know? Right. He does that. Does that really well, and when you talk about the translation, yeah. It felt like it did translate, because sometimes those nuances don't get translated and they get lost. Exactly. But I felt like maybe there were more, that some were lost. Mm-hmm. But some, you could definitely see that, the skill of the author.
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah. And when you're narrating something, if I'm telling you a story, right, I might have done a lot of things in that story that might not be the greatest. But when I tell you the story, I tell you kind of thinking I did everything great, right? So I'm like, oh yeah, Smitha, blah, blah, blah, and this is that. So I think he tends to do that, and through the story he says, hold on. I think sometimes he reflects back I did that too. So it's pretty interesting. Like he's, he's figuring—
Smitha Rau: Yeah. No, you can feel, feel his discomfort as well, right. In being in this situation, the wife is judging him for not going to work every day. And he feels it, but he doesn't take any action to fix it or doesn't feel badly enough to change anything about his life. He just is comfortable taking the money.
Kirti Mutatkar: You know at first he doesn't, the gift, the way he does that gift giving. You don't realize that. I think the second time around when I read it, it was interesting because the first time when they got on the honeymoon and she's excited and she's buying all these gifts, she comes back home and she gives the gifts and she's like, huh, this all fell flat. She realizes that it's not his money. It's like he's borrowed money.
Smitha Rau: Is it even a gift? If you are giving someone a gift and the source of income for both of you is the same, you know, it's not a gift. It's interesting how she brings it up. Yeah. What about the ants? The ants and that story with all that, any thoughts on that?
Smitha Rau: Again with the ants, the author was trying to give us a glimpse into their thinking process. I felt. Maybe I'm not really very clear on this. Maybe there was more to it that I still haven't got—
Kirti Mutatkar: Something about your, the thing of having a family unit and being protective of—
Smitha Rau: Yeah, for context early on in the story, when there are some ants in the kitchen, the mom takes and gets into a war with them and it makes it her purpose to get rid of the ants. And at late 1 night, she's found to be tracking them with a flashlight. So it's pretty funny how obsessive she becomes of getting rid of the ants from their kitchen. And that kind of gives the kids license to kind of go squish ants, and he does that later, after he's married and his wife is horrified. What did the ants do to you to go and kill them? So, but that kind of is a precursor to what happens, the events that happened later. And I got the sense she does that to protect her family. The mother gets rid of things that are going to affect the enjoyment of life for her family, and she kind of tends to do that with other things and other people as well later in the story. So—
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah, I think it kind of, it's hard to digest when you squish an ant because it bothers you or your family. It might be okay, but if that's another human being or an animal, a bigger animal, right. I mean, I think that happens to a dog.
Smitha Rau: Yeah.
Kirti Mutatkar: You know, it's interesting but it's not explicitly said—
Smitha Rau: No, no. That—
Kirti Mutatkar: —what happens. But anything that comes in the way, they suddenly people start—
Smitha Rau: Yeah. Yeah. And nothing is explicit. So that may be an issue for some people. Yeah. Who like closure, who like things neatly tied up in a bow. Yeah. And this is definitely not neat, not tied up in a bow. It's definitely ghochar. Yeah. It's all tangled up. There is no clean ending. So it's up to you to figure out or decide what happens. So—
Kirti Mutatkar: Agreed. I think, yeah, you have to. Yeah. Maybe something at the end happens or does not happen.
Smitha Rau: You don't know. Yeah. No.
Kirti Mutatkar: Even that narration of that on how you should treat people and accidents happen, right? I mean, people die in accidents. I mean that, why would you want to kill somebody? Accidents happen. Yeah. But just saying something like that, you're like, ooh.
Smitha Rau: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, I want to read the ending of the story where there is this character called Vincent. Mm-hmm. He is a server in a coffee shop that our narrator goes to frequently. The words that he tells the narrator at the end, "Sir, you want to wash your hand? There's blood on it." So, and we are not very clear where the blood came from and what kind does he mean? Figuratively or literally? Yeah. So it's pretty interesting how this character Vincent just spews out some random words of wisdom throughout the book. So, he, at 1 point he says, 1 story, many sides or something like that. So instead of commenting on events that happen in the coffee shop to the regular customers, he just brushes it off and he says "1 story, many sides." Phrases like that. So it reminds me of Jeeves from P.G. Wodehouse. Oh yeah. Yeah. So similar character.
Kirti Mutatkar: I didn't think of that. You're right. You're right.
Smitha Rau: Yeah. So it's very similar character. Very subservient on the outside, but full of wisdom. Yep. And he makes these pithy comments, you know, that is interesting.
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah. And so when he does that right. He does it. It's such a perfect timing in the book. Mm-hmm. And when he's saying this, it's like that 1 you just said, what you see is don't believe it. Because there could be different stories, right? Yeah. Yeah. What is happening in this coffee shop and these 2 are fighting and 1 walks away. Yeah. I mean, you don't know what the story—
Smitha Rau: Yeah. You don't know, 1 story, many sides. You see 1 side of it, but there could be other sides that you, that are not visible to you right now.
Kirti Mutatkar: Right. So when people read this book, you can read the book and take the book as literally. Yeah. And—but you have to also see what the underlying thing is happening, which is pretty good. He did, he did a good job with that. So, Smitha, with, I know you said growing up some of these things we've seen with our families and stuff. Is there anything in this book that you read and you're like, oh, this has changed the way I think about things?
Smitha Rau: Mm. I don't know. I had never really thought about people coming into money and lottery winners and things like that. Mm-hmm. But people say, people believe that 70% of the lottery winners. Mm-hmm. Go bankrupt. Mm-hmm. Within a couple of years or whatever with financial mismanagement. And, you know, they don't invest properly. They spend too much. They splurge on themselves for whatever reasons, but they have proved that statistic to be wrong. People like to believe that most people who win the lottery end up being unhappy. Mm-hmm. It's a good thing to believe. Yeah. Most of us who don't have that kind of money, it's good. But they said it's only about a third of the people who have money, who come into money suddenly that they end up losing it all. They go broke. But I do see that when you come into money, you do tend to put on airs. I can't speak from personal experience, but I have seen that. Yeah. And in this book, the author says something like, the suddenly rich start holding an umbrella in the moonlight. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know the exact words, but something to that effect. Yeah. And which is, I wonder why they do that. That's—
Kirti Mutatkar: That's—
Smitha Rau: That's true. Is it to kind of show off that you have money that you need to be noticed, or you suddenly find yourself being so sensitive that moonlight is going to hurt you? I don't know.
Kirti Mutatkar: That is so true that I missed that, but yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so true. I think maybe it could be both, right? Yeah. So you get rich and yeah. Because you want the world to know, you are like, oh, I'm a rich person.
Smitha Rau: You have to put on airs. Yeah. Otherwise, if you—
Kirti Mutatkar: Like people are not going to know.
Smitha Rau: No.
Kirti Mutatkar: It's like the whole, I think, think about this a lot. You know, even when you achieve success or you kind of maybe at work or anything else. Right. Is it like when an apple falls, has that whole thing, right? If you're not in the forest. Yeah. Does it matter? Right. So the same thing maybe it's like if I'm rich. Yeah. And people don't know, what's the point of being rich. I want the world to know maybe I—
Smitha Rau: That could be that.
Kirti Mutatkar: Right.
Smitha Rau: Hey, it's the level of richness that matters too. Right, exactly. And really super rich don't care who knows or not, but if you have just newly come to wealth, you want people to know, see, I'm important now. I have money now.
Kirti Mutatkar: Exactly.
Smitha Rau: So that could be, I'm not with you guys at that level anymore. Exactly. So it could be, yeah.
Kirti Mutatkar: So for me, you know what was surprising to me, I think when we discussed this book with our other book club, right? When you, you and I came from a very different family in India, right? More focus on kind of—I shouldn't say that seems like a little bit snobbish to say the intellectual versus not. But I think more the focus. Yeah, more, yeah. Academic focus and not the money, all that. Right. On all the stuff. And people come from a business environment, which is very different. So the other friends who are from a business family, they read each and everything and they said, oh my God, this is us, oh my God, this is us.
Smitha Rau: Yeah. They could find family members who were so similar to these characters. Yes.
Kirti Mutatkar: So maybe you and I didn't relate to that aspect of it, but a lot of people did because when you have a breadwinner and how the breadwinner gets treated and how the whole family revolves around that, where the time he gets up and the time he eats and everybody in the family knows that. And he gets the first thing because he is the 1 who's making, who's bringing the bread in, right? Yeah. So it's, everybody said that's exactly how the business family works. Yeah. And then things happen and you're like, huh, what happened here? This person was alive and this person disappeared. Wonder what happened to that person. So maybe it's like, it feels like a story or a movie or something, but maybe it's real in real life that could happen. We never know. Right. So then based on that, so my book rating, right, so I have that, a book rating with your fizz, Brain Fizz Factor. So where would you rate it? Where, where, where is it?
Smitha Rau: Alright.
Kirti Mutatkar: Out of 1 to 5?
Smitha Rau: 1 to 5. I would give it a 4. 4? Yeah. How about you?
Kirti Mutatkar: It did, definitely a 4 or 4.5 because it did create all those things. And the fun part for me, which I always like in books, is when you think it's going in 1 direction and suddenly, whoops. What happened here? I love that. And he does that very well. Yes. He's a great writer. I actually liked him as a writer. And I think it'll make, I keep thinking about will, do you think it'll make a good movie? This 1?
Smitha Rau: I think it really will.
Kirti Mutatkar: It will be awesome.
Smitha Rau: Yeah. No, I think it, it is a, it should definitely be made into a movie. Yeah. That good.
Kirti Mutatkar: So for, definitely 4.5. And what about the other rating that we have? Where do you think it's on your bookshelf? So 0 would mean you read it, you're done. Oh, shred it. Maybe 2 or 3 would be, you read it.
Smitha Rau: I already read it twice. So—
Kirti Mutatkar: So that's your rating. It's 5, but it's not next to your bedside. Right. You're—
Smitha Rau: I tend not to buy books at all, so my bedside, my bookshelf is empty.
Kirti Mutatkar: But it, the interesting part about this book I was thinking about it, it is very easy accessible online. It is right. Our OCPL, our library system has lots of copies.
Smitha Rau: Yeah. And I found the audiobook to be very good as well.
Kirti Mutatkar: Was it? Oh, was it different? Like reading? It must be fun. Is it, who narrates it?
Smitha Rau: There's a guy who narrates it. He, it was an Indian name and an Indian voice. Yeah. But it was definitely not a Kannada speaking person. Okay. So some of the names were slightly different the way the pronunciation was. But it's still Anita and Malti.
Kirti Mutatkar: Malti.
Smitha Rau: And Chikkamma was fine, but, yeah, it was slightly different but enjoyable. I think an Indian story in an Indian voice was fun.
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah. Maybe I should, I will, I will have my book club ladies listen to this podcast and see if I can recommend that book. Yeah. And say it might be—
Smitha Rau: Yeah. Yeah.
Kirti Mutatkar: "Ghachar Ghochar."
Smitha Rau: "Ghachar Ghochar."
Kirti Mutatkar: Yes. Yeah. I love the, even the title. "Ghachar Ghochar." It's like untangled and we are trying to untangle. Or it's like the, like life—
Smitha Rau: It's ghochar is—
Kirti Mutatkar: Tangled. Tangled. Sorry, tangled. Then we are trying to untangle. So you're trying to untangle the—
Smitha Rau: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but the story is definitely ghochar. It's completely tangled up. And even the ending is not untangled.
Kirti Mutatkar: I know.
Smitha Rau: It's up to you to untangle it. But—also, because the author leaves so many unanswered questions, I feel like we tend to question everything that he has brought up because you don't know where the clue is lurking and you are desperately looking. Was that something—there may have been nothing but because it wasn't closed up in the end, you tend to go back and question everything, and I think that's what is, that's 1 of the reasons why the book stays with you for a little bit. Otherwise, if it was a clean ending, all the questions answered, everything closed and neat in a bow. Yeah. You wouldn't have any questions, you wouldn't think back. And why did that, why did the author write that? What, why was that incident important? Why were the ants important? Why was, you know, those kinds of things.
Kirti Mutatkar: Right. That's true. This was a lot of fun, Smitha, this is awesome. But with saying that we don't have anything to talk about, we—
Smitha Rau: I know. Talk about. Yeah. But I—
Kirti Mutatkar: The roundtable will be very, very similar. Lots of themes in here that we can kind of talk about. I think the discussion would be great.
Smitha Rau: Yeah, I think so. So with this book of the discussion, I would be interested to see what our non-Indian friends—
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah. That'd be so cool.
Smitha Rau: —think about this story. Yeah.
Kirti Mutatkar: Yeah. So I would encourage everybody to read the book. It's a short book and, and like I said, it's available, easily available. You don't, we don't even have to buy it. It's pretty, and listen to it like you said. So thank you.
Smitha Rau: Thank you. Thank you for having me.